Nokia 5800 XpressMusic review

It's not the company's first touchscreen device, but the 5800 XpressMusic is the first touchscreen device that Nokia has designed to appeal to the masses, and as such, there are certain expectations. By even the most forgiving of standards, Nokia is now officially late to this game -- all of the remaining top-five manufacturers have been offering mass-market touchscreen phones for some time now -- so there's plenty of ground to be made up. What's more, the 5800 marks the retail introduction of S60 5th Edition, the latest incarnation of the world's most ubiquitous smartphone platform; future iterations of this very code will lay the groundwork for the Symbian Foundation's next-gen offensive, so the stakes have never been higher. You might say the weight of the world -- or Finland, at the very least -- is on the 5800's shoulders, but is this unassuming little slate up to the task? Let's have a look.

S60 5th Edition

Nokia 5800 XpressMusic review

Hardware

Physically, the clean, all-black 5800 doesn't make much of an impression at all -- and knowing Nokia, that's by design. By all appearances, it's a simple, functional, and to-the-point device without any frills to detract from its lot in life; only the decoratively patterned battery cover belies the theme. Of course, the same could be said of virtually any slate-style handset, yet still, there's something very uniquely... well, "Nokia" about the 5800's industrial design. It's a polarizing effect; personally, we're on the "love" side of that delicate love / hate balance, but we can imagine plenty of potential buyers being underwhelmed at first glance. The 5800's price and XpressMusic designation suggest that it's meant to live in a market segment where fashion and style often play a pretty big role in the decision, and if you're cross-shopping it (perhaps unfairly) with high-end feature phones, iPhones, Storms, and the like, the 5800 probably isn't going to look as design-conscious, well-made, or aspirational as the competition to the casual observer. Again, don't get us wrong, we dig how it came out -- but by the same token, we'd like to see what the E71's design squad could've done. Fortunately, S60 5th Edition (and its Symbian Foundation-controlled successors) are Nokia's future, so there's no question we'll have plenty of opportunities to see this same platform operating on a variety of form factors, designs, and price points. Of course, whether the 5800 was the right first device to launch will likely be debated for years to come.

"Nokia-ness" isn't the only potential problem with the 5800's physical design, though. Raised bezels around displays are passé by any measure, and the big, fat lip on this particular device is about as prominent as they come. Fortunately, it doesn't touch the edge of the visible area of the display on any side, so it's less of a usability concern here and more of a cleanliness one; if you keep the phone stowed in your pocket, you'll likely end up with dust and lint lodged around that edge. That sleek, black slate isn't so sleek or so black anymore, then, is it? A minor concern, yes -- but again, the bezel serves no functional purpose here, and we would've been just fine with seeing it disappear.

Heading around back, things get a little cheap -- and a little weird. Like the software (more on that in a moment), the battery cover on the 5800 appears to have been a total afterthought. It pries off without any sort of latch -- and yes, granted, this is a widely-accepted design decision for phones, but it's on there just tightly enough so that you almost feel like you're going to break it every time. For folks who use a single battery and a single phone, this won't be much of an issue -- you'll probably only remove the cover once or twice in the entire time that you own the phone -- but for anyone who switches devices or carries a spare battery, beware, because you're going to want iron fingernails and an iron will. (Strangely, even though the SIM conveniently loads through a slot on the side of the phone, you still need to get under the battery to remove it.)

It gets worse. That now-infamous plectrum (and yes, Nokia does actually refer to it as a "plectrum" in the manual) is required fare, because the 5800's stylus is perhaps the most ill-conceived we've ever experienced on any touchscreen device (okay, the Sony Ericsson P800's was pretty bad, too, but at least you have a sense for how bad we're talking about here). It seems as though the inclusion of a stylus literally could've been a last-minute decision when Nokia engineers realized and came to terms with the fact that S60 5th Edition wouldn't be 100 percent finger-friendly, because it's sort of wedged into the battery cover. Hooks on the other side of the cover secure the stylus when it's stowed, and on a couple occasions, we missed the second hook, jamming the stylus between the hook and the battery beneath it. Furthermore, on the first of our two test units, the stylus was virtually impossible to dislodge from the cover when we first got it (we had to triple-check the manual to make sure that it was, in fact, a removable stylus and not some sort of decorative element to the cover). Not to say the stylus is really worth dislodging, since it's plastic, easily bent, and generally not worth your time. Bottom line: stick with your fingers and the plectrum if you can.

Controls are conveniently-placed and pretty much where you'd expect them to be on a modern Nokia: two-detent camera button, spring-loaded slider for locking and unlocking the phone, and a volume rocker all along the right (granted, this is reversed from where most phones place it, but we're still getting used to an S60 Nokia even having a dedicated volume rocker, so we're not complaining); a 3.5mm headphone jack, micro-USB port, standard Nokia micro charger port, and power button on the top; and covered slots for the microSD and SIM cards along the left. The bottom is port-free, save for the mic.

Software

If you take a Ferrari and duct-tape a hull to the bottom of it, does it become a speedboat? No, of course it doesn't. Likewise, if you take S60 3.2 -- a perfectly capable, reasonably usable smartphone platform powering tens of millions of devices around the world -- and duct-tape touch support to it, you're not going to end up with a very usable system, and it's bewildering to us that Nokia seems to have thought otherwise. 5th Edition is, for all practical purposes, a remix of 3rd Edition Feature Pack 2 that's been mildly massaged to support touchscreens, and the result us nothing short of a usability nightmare.

The problems begin the instant you power on the phone for the first time. In the process of setting your region and the date and time, you need to choose AM or PM (at least, you do here in the States where we use the vastly inferior 12-hour system). Here's the problem: the on-screen numeric keypad you're presented doesn't have letters below each number like you're used to seeing on a traditional handset, so you've just got to guess where "A" and "P" might be. [Correction: AM / PM can be toggled by pressing any number, which makes no more sense. -Ed.] Granted, it's not the end of the world -- many of us have the letter layout memorized anyhow -- but it's a dead simple usability miss that should've never made it past Nokia's testing department. The AM / PM thing also starkly demonstrates 5th Edition's core problem: wide swaths of it are simply 3.2 carry-overs that have been gently reworked to become "usable" without a physical keypad. Needless to say, it feels like Nokia's being dragged kicking and screaming into the world of touch. Maybe it is.

Speaking of keypads, 5th Edition has many to choose from -- and few (if any) of them make much sense. Pictured here is the city search keypad, which we think would bewilder even seasoned touchscreen and Nokia veterans -- it looks more like a puzzle game of some sort than an input method. Even worse, keys start disappearing once you type to restrict it to letters that correspond to entries in the city list; it sounds intuitive, but in reality, it's pretty disorienting when your keypad looks like this to start.

We never got the hang of knowing when pressing on an input field would pop up a part-screen or full-screen keypad, but there isn't any consistency that's meaningful to the user. As far as we're concerned, with the exception of perhaps the landscape QWERTY option, none of the input methods has any excuse for obscuring the whole screen. In the pictured example here, we're in the Notes app -- but for some reason, the landscape numeric keypad (which can be used in both T9 and triple-tap modes) takes up the whole screen. There's no good reason for it, and frankly, we're not sure why you'd ever want to use this style of keypad in landscape mode anyway.

The 5800 does a commendable job of flipping between portrait and landscape modes quickly and seamlessly. Unlike the iPhone, there's no stupid screen transition to get in the way here -- you turn the phone, and boom, you're on your way. We were actually a bit shocked at how thoroughly the phone supports both portrait and landscape, considering how half-baked other aspects of the phone seem; the home screen is pretty much the only prominent thing here that can't be thrown into landscape mode, and fortunately, there's no great reason why you'd want to do that anyway.

One bright spot for 5th Edition is its included browser, which is excellent as usual. The problem is that in the time since the WebKit-based app was first released, the iPhone and Android have both caught up; webOS will be playing the same game as well, and WinMo certainly has no shortage of options, either. Of these, 5th Edition has perhaps the worst UI implementation, though it does a totally fine job of rendering -- and unlike some of those other platforms, you've got Flash support out of the box. In particular, we struggled to use our thumb to scroll around on the plastic, resistive display, which had a tendency to "bounce" just enough to register clicks as we scrolled. This is a problem we've witnessed on other devices in the past, and we think that a glass screen -- something with a little less "give" and friction -- would solve it completely. Needless to say, we're not worried about the Omnia HD suffering the same fate here. Not to beat a dead horse, but the browser also represents a glaring example of an area where 3.2 software has been massaged for touch support: the mouse pointer, which serves no purpose on this phone, is still present and visible.

Voice quality on the 5800 is good; as with all Nokias, we realistically could've used one or two more notches of volume, but it wasn't overly quiet by any stretch. Music quality was also very good over the 3.5mm jack (assuming you're bringing decent headphones to the table), and the loudspeaker is both loud and clear enough to be used as a makeshift desktop boombox from time to time. Annoyingly, most operations in the music app take about a half second to execute, which gets tiresome -- this is one place where the 5800 definitely seems like it could use a bit more processor juice, a better-written app, or both. At any rate, we do like that the 5800 includes podcast downloading and FM radio capability out of the box, but we're pretty ticked that they've removed the internet radio app found in 3.2 -- mobile internet radio is one of the great pleasures of a 3G connection, and we're chalking this one up to Espoo not having enough time to port the 3.2 version to 5th Edition. We're hoping the app reappears by the time the N97 rolls around; either that, or Nokia's probably banking on developers fixing this issue with their own wares on the Ovi Store.

Wrap-up

Would we recommend the 5800? Unless you like solving mysteries like "will this operation take one or two taps" and "what number corresponds to F on the keypad," no, we wouldn't. Nokia's come to the table with really good, if not stellar, midrange hardware here -- but the company's lack of willingness to shed its preconceptions and leap head-first into the touch paradigm with a clear mind and a clean slate has hampered it beyond salvage. We have every confidence that Nokia (and its buddies at the Symbian Foundation) will end up getting it right, but these guys are still the biggest in the world; maybe it'll take a bit of humble pie before they realize that this needs to be addressed from an entirely different angle. Windows Mobile is learning that lesson from countless licensees re-skinning what has become Microsoft's liability of a UI, and perhaps Nokia should look at Samsung's Omnia HD -- which has reskinned S60 with TouchWiz -- as an advance warning that they're headed down the same path.

[(Unverified) Posted Mar 30th 2009 1:18PM]

When the battery dies, you can use the pick at the end of the cord to play a guitar and make your own music.

[Bennyaltuca Posted Mar 30th 2009 6:50PM]

Just put android in there and solve all your problems. Why wont anybody listen?! stop shedding your money on an ever not so good for smart phones Symbian OS and let google do all the work for free (but please, feel generous). I bet if you could install android in there it would be another story. Well. thanks for the review anyway, I had considered it for my next phone but i guess i should stay away from it, I guess ill just have to wait for the HTC g2 to hit the market and the reviewers or end up with an iphone later on. (BUT I REALLY HOPE NOT)

[sockatume Posted Apr 1st 2009 12:13PM]

I think that's Android and Apple's big contribution to mobile phone users everywhere. Phone companies can no longer afford to have really crappy OSes, so they can either get on board with Android or try to actually do a decent job. Customers won't settle for this sort of crap any more.

[Xtole Posted Mar 30th 2009 1:20PM]

DUMB!

[(Unverified) Posted Mar 30th 2009 1:31PM]

i hate your whiny nit-picking

do you seriously get paid to produce such low quality content?

[(Unverified) Posted Mar 30th 2009 1:48PM]

there are more nokia fanboys than I thought. The usability on this phone doesnt look that great, and that adds the the experience of using one everyday. If he ran across these issues and they annoyed him then he has full right to "Xpress" his feelings about them.

What I mean is they must be annoying enough to have just focused on them and forget the good stuff.

[(Unverified) Posted Apr 5th 2009 4:39PM]

The fact this comment is "highly ranked" basically guarantees that the majority of Engadget readers are retarded. "Whiny nitpicking"?? seriously? Wow. You and every person that voted this comment up: Die in a fire.

[DirtyVegas Posted Mar 30th 2009 1:31PM]

Damn, hope the N97 won't suck.

[(Unverified) Posted Mar 30th 2009 1:53PM]

I meant to respond to "evilbillsosby"

[Judah Rosenthal Posted Mar 30th 2009 2:01PM]

I think this review doesn't really do justice to S60 users. Engadget (& Mobile) frequently leave Symbian out of their smartphone platform discussions so I don't know how to take this.

My personal experience (after owning the N95, 8gb, N82, N73, N93, N91 & now the N79) is that this phone actually does a lot of things well.

I really liked the media button (top right). The functions are S60 based, but there are some new shortcuts.

Tapping's not that big of a deal. Most are double tap, some are not. They seemed pretty straightforward to me & couldn't have taken more than a day or two to get used to.

The reason I don't have the phone is that the camera (compared to a 5mp) is just not enough for me. & when it died after a firmware upgrade Nokia sent me a new one & I didn't want to wait, so I bought the N79.

The other problems I found:

1 - lip attracts dust. Screen protectors don't go all the way to the edge.
2 - some of the key displays don't have alpha characters, so you can't text message or dial #'s w/ words unless you're familiar w/ the layout (forget 1800 CAR TALK, for instance, unless you remember 1 for C, 1 for A, etc).
3 - only 4 quick launch buttons on the top. used to 5. like 5 plus the 2 hard keys.

[(Unverified) Posted Apr 5th 2009 4:42PM]

Ok Engadget.. 2 things amiss here. First of all my first comment was obviously a reply to the comment above, and second of all look at the date compared to the comments below it. Somehow it's appearing BEFORE comments that were made a month ago.

[(Unverified) Posted Apr 20th 2009 2:24AM]

An early note for what I am about to write:
My friends (ALL of them) agree that I am a little... strange, so my opinions are from my perspective, and its likely a majority of people WILL disagree what what I say. However, I believe my opinion comes from a considerably different direction, and as such a somewhat different perspective on the 5800's capabilities. I have only used my mother's 6220c infrequently, if at all (just to set it up for her, I found it quite logically set up...). My phones to date have been early Samsung devices (x426, d807), very durable hardware (for me at least, my friends with the same models have rather... strange issues i've managed to avoid) but with some extremely limiting software capabilities (the d807 crashes on me if I slide it too much.. battery removal doesn't fix it, but somehow leaving it on for an hour resets itself). I'm also a rather average sized asian (aka. thin), so my fingers are not particularly large or small.

Alright this is my take on both this review, and of owning this phone for a few weeks. My experiences with touchscreens start with the Palm TX, something I've been using on a daily basis, and has "conditioned" me into using resistive screens more than capacitives. Given two years of working with a rather... mediocre (somewhat bad for that matter, i have a rather large dead spot in the lowercase input region...) resistive panel, I'd say that's enough to understand the quirks of touchscreens. Now, my friend owns an Iphone 3G and I have played with it on occasion. I will agree that the UI is very fluidic, very smooth and the screen extremely crisp in most lighting (did not like it in sunlight, honestly was surprised at it...reviews seem to make it out much better than it is). HOWEVER, I personally find the UI NOT intuitive, nor very finger friendly for me. Honestly when the first time I used the Iphone, I actually had issues finding the functions, kept hitting the wrong buttons, the screen not registering my inputs... Granted I am coming from the Garnet OS, the Iphone just never worked for me.

Then, a few weeks ago, I purchased the 5800 on the grounds that the s60 operating system has much software support behind it, excellent battery life, wifi, and apparently some impressive audio to boot. When I got it, I have to say the entire thing felt very natural to me. The Symbian OS made sense to me (I hand my phone to my friends, they spend a minute looking for the unlock slider, another 3 minutes of hitting the shortcuts in hopes of finding the menu, then the final realization that the menu key is the bright white hardware key at the bottom after another minute or two...) as well as the key layout. I actually LIKE the double click implementation on the list menus, and the single clicks on the icon menus. The screen also responds quite well to my inputs, I rarely ever get errors when inputting data. The stylus is handy for high precision input (writing chinese for instance), while every other menu I use my fingers with no problems whatsoever (that includes the slider bars in the icon menus).

I've isolated WHY i have issues with the Iphone, and why I love the implementation of the 5800. The Palm TX effectively conditioned me to using the pads of my fingers for general input, or a transition to using my nails for higher detail input. Capacitive screens don't take well to fingernails, and so the problems with input arise. I'm also used to deep organized menu systems (to get to my work on my computer, you have to go through no less than 6 folders to see the first inklings of useful files), so having everything laid out on the equivalent of the desktop of your computer annoys me as well as confuses me slightly as to where everything actually is. I like the clean home screen on my 5800 with only 4 shortcuts to clutter the home screen, where i can enjoy the high resolution wallpaper I have on it. The versatility of the resistive screen also allows me to use random objects, like the back of my pen to select something when I need to look up something rather than requiring me to drop the pen and pick up the phone to use it.



As I have posted on a different forum, I've honestly never ran into the mentioned issues with the Stylus. Removal or insertion, I've never had a problem. Granted the removal might be difficult, I assume it was an early production problem (I can see the thing loosening up over time though and potentially losing it. which brings up the plectrum...). That point leads into the "infamous" plectrum. Why is it infamous? Also, I actually do use the plectrum on occasion. As mentioned before, I worry about the longevity of the stylus holding clips in the phone (plastic on plastic clips, never a good recipe for long term durability...) and I actually have used the plectrum for character input. I say character because I do know some Chinese, and will play with inputting it in for various reasons (friends names in the phonebook for example). It serves its purpose just like the stylus does, in a different package. Although I do have a minor gripe... I have the blue model, and it came with a grey plectrum.

The raised bezel, which might seem weird to Iphone users, is there for protection of the weaker material used for resistive screens. I actually appreciate the fact that it IS present to protect the screen, although I don't quite like the dust collecting nature of them. Also mentioned was the volume rocker, I'm not sure about the other models, but I've always been under the impression the XM lineup ALWAYS had a volume rocker on it. I've also never had problems with AM/PM, because I've been using 24h for years.

The letter searching used in the "city search" portion of your review is quite useful for me. allows much quicker access through my phone book instead of scrolling. Honestly, how is it disorienting? Alphabetical ordering of the letters, left to right, up to down. Not very disorienting to me.... On the same thread of text input, the last one used (be it full screen qwerty, handwriting, miniqwerty, or the standard keypad) is the one that will pop up again. It will not spontaneously change, it will reopen the one you used last.

The last thing I will mention that I'm quite surprised at is the comment made about "finger bounce". Never have I experienced this on ANY touchscreen i have used, including the Palm TX. I place screen protectors on all the portable screens I have that are exposed (d807 had, and still does have the original plastic that came on its screen. As such, the screen is still scratch free, and in perfect condition), and the ones that come from Palm are HORRIBLE. Put one on, and the stylus had issues with input not always registering, etc. I've never had these issues with the 5800's resistive screen, but I HAVE had the problem with the IPhone (again, due to my constant transitions from using my finger and fingernails).

Problems I Have had? I've had freezes that have occurred (I have isolated why, its a strange combination of programs and a specific battery level...), the system runs a little slow (Palm TX is 312mhz, on a 320x480px screen, 5800 runs 369mhz on a 360x640px screen, Iphone is 600mhz on a 320x480px. Obviously going to have some speed issues), and software support is not where I wanted it to be. Other than that, most of the other complaints I've heard about this phone seem slightly unfounded for ME.

I do realize endgadget is not a technical review site, it is more of a technology news site. I have to point out though, that this review is surprisingly negative for this device, for what is delivered at this price point in comparison to the review written for the Iphone, which sells considerably higher when sold unlocked.

[retarded commenter Posted Mar 30th 2009 1:32PM]

A whole paragraph nitpicking over an AM/PM toggle, but pretty much nothing about the camera or video playback.

[(Unverified) Posted Mar 30th 2009 1:36PM]

Al, the camera is not fantastic, and I found the n95 camera much better. It is mediocre outside in daylight. The video playback is fantastic on the lovely high quality display.

[Chris Posted Mar 30th 2009 1:41PM]

The point is that the device misses the mark on some shockingly basic levels -- like the AM/PM issue. That's about as basic and simple of a usability miss as I can imagine.

[fikhl Posted Mar 30th 2009 4:56PM]

Chris, I just checked the AM/PM thing that you mentioned (I hadn't notice that before), but you can easily toggle between AM/PM by pressing almost any keys, not necessarily the A or P characters. not that annoying overall... ;)

[DirtyVegas Posted Apr 2nd 2009 8:19PM]

@ Chris

I've said this before, I'll say it again. Kudos for replying to individual posts, shows you really do care about your contributions. your colleagues should learn from you!

[(Unverified) Posted Mar 30th 2009 1:33PM]

I got my hands on one of these phones a few days ago in the UK. I have to say I wasn't expecting much for a mid-priced music/smart phone but this has exceeded my expectations. The qwerty and alphanumeric keyboards are fantastic to use, and the small vibrations that occur when the keyboard is tapped is a nice addition. The phone is also quite light and feels solid. The Symbian S60 5th Edition that the phone uses for the 5800 is also very touch friendly and the web browsing is fantastic over HSDPA and wifi. If you are from the UK the iPlayer runs fantastically by the way. The GPS also locks on very quickly and the voice-guided navigation is amazing. Therefore, if you want an iPhone but cannot afford it, buy the Nokia 5800. It is effectively the iPhone with better connectivity and a better camera, but without the Apple brand name. A fantastic device.

[sr1329 Posted Mar 30th 2009 2:38PM]

No, it is effectively an iPhone for those who cannot afford an iPhone. If you've actually used an iPhone for more than a few days you'd know that. I'll tell you as much as I wanted to hate the iPhone, I found the keyboard after a week and a half to be amazing. I mean I was flying on that thing. I tried the 5800 over 3-4 weeks and the keyboard is still crap. In fact I just use the T9 keypad instead.

You're right about one thing: it is cheap. That's it's only selling point.

For the money an E71 or E66 will murder it.

[(Unverified) Posted Mar 30th 2009 4:29PM]

I sold my iPhone to switch to the 5800. Having used the 5800 for a month, it has been far more reliable as a phone than the iPhone. That being said, the scrolling is not always consistent, but the 5800 is definitely more responsive and far superior (once you add on the required apps) as a cellphone and email device.

[(Unverified) Posted Mar 30th 2009 1:33PM]

Guess Nokia is really not trying anymore huh?

[AbhishekVerma Posted Mar 30th 2009 1:33PM]

I'm a Nokia phone owner, and have owned the 5800 Music Xpress phone for all of 1 week. I think Engadget's being a bit too lenient with the phone.

It's an absolute nightmare to use. Good God!

[sr1329 Posted Mar 30th 2009 2:40PM]

Seriously bro. It is appalling. Very poor show from Nokia. It turned me off the N97 for good. I don't want it anymore.

But, I will say that if you are stuck with it, you will get used to it after another week or two, but it stills does not come close to the iPhone in terms of a touchscreen phone.

There are much better Nokias in the world like the E71, E66, N86, N95.

[(Unverified) Posted Mar 30th 2009 2:33PM]

Lots of fair points, certainly I'm no fan of the resistive touch screen. One thing I'll point out though, the bezel around the screen is *designed* to serve a purpose - to protect the screen when the phone is face down. Just saying. More of my hands-on thoughts here.
http://www.last100.com/2008/11/10/ive-been-playing-with-nokias-new-touchscreen-phone-the-5800-xpressmusic-aka-the-tube/

[(Unverified) Posted Mar 30th 2009 1:35PM]

Hmm...

Quite surprised at your problems with the stylus. I haven't had any issues at all with mine and there don't appear to be any of consequence noted on the web. It's also quite robust and doesn't really bend at all. Plus, of course, there's a spare if you're a bit cack handed. The plectrum on the other hand is just silly.

I'm not sure where you're getting your info from here but it's way off base as is your clock setting bit - the am/pm shift is triggered by hitting any numerical key, not the ones with 'a' or 'p' assigned to them. Also, the Date and Time menu settings menus allows you to change the date format to pretty much anything you want.

Also, Nokia's have had dedicated volume rockers for years. My 6310i certainly did as did my N95. Similarly, the mouse arrow you draw attention only appears when screens are loading, not the screens themselves so not sure what the problem is.

But the key thing you're missing is this: it uses the same Nokia interface and way of doing things that we in Europe and Asia have been using and are familiar with for over 10 years. You may find the 'disappearing' keyboard confusing but it's just a mirror of the menu option the N95 and others have. For any European or Asian it's as intuitive a way of doing things as there is. In saying that they could do with sorting out the 'one tap, two tap' thing. It's unnecessary and could be corrected with firmware.

Which is the problem: Nokia don't really care about the US as a primary market because they already have two or three. Bottom line is that if you know your Nokia's this is a dream to use. If you don't... whatever.

As a final point, iIf I'm being honest here I'd say this review took all of five minutes because you make a big point out of something - the am/pm shift - that actually isn't an issue at all. It seems rushed, overly negative and missing a lot of the good stuff.

Bottom line isn't so much 'must do better' for Nokia, it's 'must do better' for Engadget.

[retarded commenter Posted Mar 30th 2009 1:40PM]

Excellent reply!

[Chris Posted Mar 30th 2009 1:49PM]

Yes, you're right, it's a mirror of the way the N95 works. That makes NO sense for a touchscreen device. With all due respect, this is an exceptionally apologetic comment toward a device that needs serious work.

I love Nokia. I carried an N95-3 in my pocket for many, many months and own several devices right now. I fully intend to make the N97 my next primary phone. But the 5800, frankly, needs a ton of help.

[iLoveApple Posted Mar 30th 2009 2:12PM]

Oh please, don't try that whole 'Europe/Asia' crap. I'm in the UK and there's plenty of people who have S60 devices yet don't really know how to use them, doubly so for the 5800.

Nokia fanboys are some of the worst. They will blindly defend their 'great' leader and come up with the stupidest of statements; they're almost as bad as Apple fanboys.

I certainly know my S60, I've been using S60 phones for the past ~5 years and I can say without a doubt in my mind that it is an absolute nightmare to use the 5800. The 5800's hardware isn't even that good for the price (one of the lame points repeated over and over by Nokia fanboys) anyway - look at the LG Cookie, it might not be a smartphone but I feel 10x more comfortable using it than the 5800, despite the stupid resistive screen.

Stop eating Nokia's shit, it's not chocolate.

[sr1329 Posted Mar 30th 2009 2:23PM]

Chris, I totally agree. The interface needs to be changed to suit the new form factor. The interface was designed for a phone with a direction pad and and some buttons. They can't just slap the same thing on a device without a direction pad or pointer. It is quite the sophomoric effort and something that is shameful coming from the makers of the N95. In fact I'm glad I bought this device.

It saved my $800 on the N97 which I will not buy after having tried this sorry excuse for a touch interface. It would have flown in the pre-iPhone world but now frankly the bar for touchscreen interfaces has been raised. You can't release some half-ass crap like this and expect to take on the iPhone. Look at Palm, now that's an answer that even got Apple scared. That's the quality of response I expected from the maker of the N95, not this sorry device.

[(Unverified) Posted Mar 30th 2009 2:36PM]

Good reply indeed, it's hard being impartial when i own a 5800xm, but for me the issues on this phone is the hue-shift bug that occurs sporadicly, the usage with sun hitting the screen (it's pretty much impossible so see what is on screen), some graphic glitches and the lack of power on CPU on some tasks.

I didn't read any critic over video playback, well it plays flv's quite well and can play MP4 H.264 at 640x320@24fps, but i recomend MP4 MPEG4 for such resolution since CPU is at its limit there.

I was used to a resistive touchscreen, i found 5800xm one very responsive and accurate, but i did use the one of an iphone and i understand why some people dislike the touch of it...

Video and photo capabilities are nice, having as only issue indoors or low light conditions that create quite some noisy image. I also own a sharp 903, where camera is better for photos you can really see the quality differences on low light conditions, but video is less fluid and has a lower resolution.

And yes... click or double-click... after a while your brain already knows which one should be applied - most grid like menus are single click, while the other menus are double click (first to select, second to confirm), but it's quite annoying at beginning...

[(Unverified) Posted Mar 30th 2009 3:12PM]

Chris, I disagree - the selection by exclusion feature makes a lot of sense to me. If you have, say, a thousand contacts in your book it makes sense to use a filtering mechanism and this one suits the bill. This equally applies to any multiple item list. I'm not offering this as an exercise in apologetics, I genuinely find it easy to use. Opinion may differ but since it's a familiar aspect of the Nokia's UI I think it'll sit pretty well with most people who've owned their phones.

What rankles a bit is your over focus on some minor aspects, one of which is fundamentally incorrect (the toggle shift on the clock which, as others aside from me have mentioned, is triggered by ANY numerical keypress, not specific ones) whilst disregarding or glossing over some of the other points it brings - sharing seamlessly through Flickr or Ovi, GPS with Nokia Maps, the video recording, camera, etc. It just seems a bit rushed and unbalanced.

Which is not to say this phone is perfect because it isn't. It has a number of irritations - the tap or double tap isn't needed, it's slow to launch SMS, there are some delays in launching applications, etc - but if you take it for what it is - a cheap multimedia phone and an interesting stab at a consumer level touchscreen by Nokia - then it's pretty good. Plus, of course, Nokia will continue to develop the firmware both to improve this model and future touchscreen releases.

I can't say this is for everyone and I do agree that it could be better but it's a nice phone and I'm perfectly happy with it. I just don't feel your review is an accurate reflection of what the phone offers and is so wildly out from the reviews offered by your peers that it smacks of a rush job.

Sorry, just the way I see it.

[I like things Posted Mar 30th 2009 3:34PM]

I really have no why idea why people are complaining about double tap. I've never had my hands on an S60v5 device so far ( although I'm currently deciding between the omnia and N97). it's so simple I learnt where to use double taps and where not to. and I think they're actually good.

FFS. one tap on icons in the menu, double tap to open something in the lists, single tap to select.. I'm fed up of accidentally opening other things on my ipod touch when I hit somewhere by mistake. It usually takes some time to get back to the previous menu..

[(Unverified) Posted Mar 30th 2009 3:39PM]

@Matthew

It's not the actual double tap, it's the inconsistency with which it's applied.

For example; it takes one tap to launch the Music Player application and two taps to open the Playlist list. That's just not right.

[Eclectico69 Posted Apr 6th 2009 4:26AM]

What part of "one tap on icons in the menu, double tap to open something in the lists, single tap to select..." is inconsistent to you?

Music APP: one tap; playlist from a LIST: one tap to select, another one to open. Notice that it doesn't even take 2 taps to open, when an item is selected in a LIST, you just need one tap to open. So to be accurate, the correct way is ONE tap to select, ONE tap to open.

In reality, it always takes ONE tap to open anything (as opposed to the actual DOUBLE click icons we are all used to in a Windows enviroment, where even if the icon is already selected it still need double clicks). Just don't see the inconsistency. I also agree that selecting something you don't want by mistake is annoying. Different taps to Select and open actually seem more intuitive to me...

In the end, the 5800 is not stupid-proof, but it takes just 2 minutes of reasoning while playing around. At least that's the way I see it. If the interface is too complex for you, go for an Iphone (you probably already own a Mac and think that Windows is too complicated). But hey, that's perfect, good we have choices and that there's a place for almost every kind of phone...

[nieker Posted Mar 30th 2009 1:40PM]

I really like this phone. It's not the greatest for pictures and surfing, but it works nice. What i really like is the fact that typing an sms while you're drunk is as easy as on a physical numpad. You shouldn't try doing that on an omnia or a htc.

[david432111 Posted Mar 30th 2009 1:41PM]

This is probably the worst review I've ever read. First of all you use a whole paragraph describing how "unfriendly" the welcome screen is. It's freaking welcome screen! Also you say absolutely nothing about the camera or almost any other aspects of the ui.
You also nit-pick, for example when in the video you show that if you touched the number filed in the dialer you couldn't use the clear button right. That has to be the most extreme case of nit-picking ever. Also the review is quite incomplete comparing it to other reviews, for example gsmarena's detailed 9 page review with tons of pictures. So the nokia 5800 has a few short comings, so what? The iphone's short comings didn't stop you from recommending it. Everybody do your self a favor and read a better review, so you can actually judge the phone without apple fanboys dragging it down.

[Chris Posted Mar 30th 2009 1:55PM]

We don't produce that style of review. There's a place for those, and we read and enjoy them ourselves -- but you're never going to get a technical review like that from us. We're trying to explain how we feel about a device and its capabilities, not do a detailed technical analysis of camera performance.

[sr1329 Posted Mar 30th 2009 2:12PM]

There's really nothing special about UI frankly. I've used the phone for 2 weeks and while it seems nitpicky when written, trust me when I say it is annoying to use everyday. The touch interface on this phone is weird. Go buy one and see for yourself. Go buy an iPhone also and then you'll see, I love my E66, but the 5800 is pretty bad. Not even in the same league as the iPhone in terms of interface and responsiveness. It's an acceptable interface if it came from Microsoft or some Chinese OEM, but for Nokia standards this phone and it's UI is terrible.

If you want a good point or two:

Excellent loudspeaker
Cheap
Snappy UI
Decent camera (better than US carrier phones)
Big screen
Did I say cheap?

[Moony123 Posted Feb 7th 2010 12:13AM]

Unless of course it's an iPhone, right Chris?

http://www.engadget.com/2007/07/03/iphone-review/

[Chris Posted Mar 31st 2009 2:20AM]

@Luke: Or a G1: http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/16/t-mobile-g1-review/

Every once in a while, we have the time, the capability, and the reader interest to really blow out a review from every conceivable angle. This takes us days of writing, editing, analysis, and a team of two people, and unfortunately, it's not something that we frequently have the resources to do.

That said, I'd like you to observe something very important: even with these reviews, the content is subjective and opinionated -- it's our take on the device. This is no different. Yes, I had to compress it more, and I'll admit, the lack of togetherness of the UI heavily influenced my opinion of the phone (and, in turn, my writeup), but on a fundamental level, the iPhone and G1 reviews are still very different from the style of review you might find on GSMArena or mobile-review.

[(Unverified) Posted Apr 1st 2009 3:00AM]

Chris whichever way you look at it, it's a shockingly poor review. While I understand that as it's your work and it's been published that you're going to be defensive... sometimes you just have to hold our hands up and say: "Ok I screwed up", which you have. As has already been said multiple times, you glossed over almost every main issue possible while focussing on some of the most minor, pettiest rubbish imaginable. I mean ok, the am/pm issue confused you... but does it REALLY matter? Once it's set up, which would take a baboon with learning difficulties about a minute, it's then set up. No more needing to change it, and you can get on with the rest of it. Also the stlus, while not rock solid, is more than useable... i've had no problems with mine whatsoever. DOn't get me wrong, the handset has its' flaws and as an objective chap myself that's something i'll freely admit. But you obviousl spent so little time with the handset that nothing of import was covered, and the article reeks of frustration over said petty things.

Journalistically speaking it was a hastily cobbled together rant, in fact the last time I saw something of that quality was from the risible Charlie Demerijan form The Inquirer, and if that doesn't make you feel embarassed then nothing will, because he represents the Gehenna of journalistic integrity.

In a perfect world, this article would be pulled and then re-written with more time andf care and then submitted. But, alas...

[(Unverified) Posted Apr 6th 2009 10:58AM]

@luke Well people actually want to know about the iphone and the G1. No-one gives a shit about these clunky subway sandwich Nokia's. You can bet your ass if it was the N97 on the block it would be a more in depth review, being as it might be a phone people would actually want to use. And people say us apple guys are bad. You nokia people are out of control with your protection of these shitty phones.

[(Unverified) Posted Mar 30th 2009 1:42PM]

and not to mention a home screen which fails to turn into landscape mode (but the application screen does)

wildly inconsistent

[(Unverified) Posted Mar 30th 2009 1:45PM]

I agree with this review and am glad the reviewer didn't fear being charged with "iPhone-fanboism".

I have an S60 phone, it's good for a non-touch phone. But Nokia (having bought the platform) needs to implement more changes to make it touch friendly. I realize the target audience are those who used non-touch Nokia phones, and like the familiarity, so I don't condone an overhaul. Having a Pre-like UI on a Nokia would alienate most people, for instance.

[sr1329 Posted Mar 30th 2009 2:05PM]

As a long time Nokia user, I 100% agree. This phone is not finished. It is a weak show from Nokia. Nearly an embarrassment considering they made the N95.

[sr1329 Posted Mar 30th 2009 2:16PM]

Also, I disagree on overhauling the interface. This device is basically a buttonless (direction pad less) device. That requires a whole new UI paradigm to work well. Not this half-assed transliteration of the regular S60 UI to a buttonless device. It's a pretty poor showing for Nokia's response to the iPhone (and we all know that's the bar they were aiming for). No innovation unless you consider the vibration when you touch the screen an innovation.

[prometeum Posted Mar 31st 2009 12:36AM]

What about picture quality and video recording?

What about data and file transfer rates?

What about video conferencing with the second vga camera?

What about the flash?

What about voice recording?

What about wireless connectivity?

What about available add-ons and apps?

What about its full hardware specs: microprocessor, internal and expandable memory, battery life?

What about additional features: schedule, organizer, GPS, maps, e-mail, net messaging, unit converters, clocks?

What about TV out?

I hope I'm not missing anything.

[Joylove Posted Mar 30th 2009 1:49PM]

Once again the Symbian OS takes some decent hardware and makes a phone into a massive fail. Having tried this phone in store, the squishy touchscreen is abysmal, and whoever took the decision to require a stylus in this day and age should be sacked. Roll on Palm Pre.

[Tres Posted Mar 30th 2009 2:06PM]

This has been my experience with every Symbian based Nokia phone I've owned (which is 3 now). Symbian is a terrible, terrible, outdated, horrible, unintuitive embedded operating system. It is better than Windows Mobile, but that's not saying much. It should have been scrapped 2 years ago.

I switched to an iPhone because I couldn't stand the usability issues any more.

[StanO Posted Mar 30th 2009 2:05PM]

So anyone has tried the latest software update for 5800 from Nokia? Have they added proper VoIP calls support yet?