The details of T-Mobile's mysterious
Project Dark definitely seem to be congealing around retooled handset billing and a set of new plans, and it looks like
TmoNews might have the first word here on the all-important subject of plan pricing. Even More Plus, which would be contract-free and offer new handset FlexPay over four installments, is apparently tracking for a $79.99 all-you-can-eat package, $69.99 with 1,000 voice minutes, or $49.99 with unlimited voice and no data. Even More meanwhile, which basically amounts to new contract plan branding with traditional hardware subsidies, will come in at $99.99 for unlimited everything (mirroring Sprint's pricing) or $59.99 for unlimited voice alone. It seems strange that the contract pricing is higher than the prepaid, especially since Even More Plus apparently won't offer any hardware subsidies whatsoever, but we're sure we're going to find out how this all shakes out soon enough. Follow the break for another shot of the pricing grids.
posted Oct 21st 2009 1:57PM
This article is wrong.
Failed to mention that the $99 pricing is for 2 phones (family plan), not 1.
Not to mention it states that the plan will include the most affordable unlimited rate plans. They would have to undercut Sprint and AT&T's prepaid to use that tag line.
The postpaid unlimited everything plan is $179 for two lines.
No, the $99.99 is for a subsidized plan (i.e., what Sprint has). The $79.99 is month-to-month unsubsidized (buy your own phone).
In other words, not a "game changer" -- not even close.
A game changer would have been a decent pay per use plan. The type of plan they have in Europe or any other country around the world. Our carriers just want to get us to pay more and more, by throwing in more stuff. we're in a recession, I don;t want unlimited anything.
A game changer would be a $15 per month, 1 gig of data, 5 cent text, and 7 cent per minute call rates. Or a $0 plan with the above, excluding data.
Don't even think about free incoming calls and text like every other industrialized nation.
After SidekickFail, I'm surprised they're not offering an unlimited data/no voice flexpay option-- there *is* a demand for it!
Ooh, according to this post - http://androidandme.com/2009/10/carriers/t-mobile-news/t-mobile-project-dark-details-leaked/ - there *will* be a data-only option on Even More, though the pricing is still unspecified. Squee!
(Seriously, I can't hear well enough on the phone to even use up 300 minutes a month. I *would* use the data-only option.)
All the 2 year agreement prices are $10-$20 less per month than the no contract prices.
The family plan is on the left in the lower image.
The red is the "no contract" price, which doesn't include a subsidized phone.
The blue is the "contract" price, which includes a subsidy and requires a commitment (presumably two years).
I realize it is confusing, but it really is that bad: On the contract side, they've achieved parity with Sprint, on a worse network. On the no-contract side, they're $15 over Wal-Mart's phone, which runs on the best US network. Failure all around.
Nothing impressive. Not a game changer. They could have doubled the minutes on the "Even More" and "Even More Plus".
How about T-Mobile T-Mobile making free N/W starting at @6pm. That along with EM & EM+ is a decent start.
Weird - check out the image on tmonews; if you look closely at the first plan sheet (Non family, two year agreement), the "OPTIONAL FEATURES" doesn't appear to be part of the actual material, but photoshopped on....it's way too clear compared to all the other text. And why is there no mention of the words "Even More" and "Even More Plus" on any of the material?
I don't know...I'm holding out hope for rates a little better than this...
Nevermind - looks like BGR has different images of the same docs. Color me disappointed.
http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2009/10/21/t-mobile-to-employees-dont-you-dare-open-this-until-october-25th/
So same price as Sprint for 1/2 the network quality and NO 3G?...ummm I'll pass. Nice try t-mobile. Love my $99 everything plan with my Pre on Sprint...I would NEVER go near GSM poor call quality again.
Having used both Sprint and T-Mobile for a number of years, I really don't know where you come up with "1/2 the network quality." In my experience (first in DFW and now in Austin) they are pretty much equal in this regard. I do agree that Sprint runs circles around T-Mo when it comes to data but it is incorrect to say that the latter has "NO 3G."
That said, if this is what the hype has been about, I'm disappointed. Then again, I was already on T-Mobile's loyalty plan so I probably won't be partaking in anything related to Project Dark.
THIS IS AMAZING!!
THIS WILL DEFINITELY CATAPULT T-MOBILE TO NUMBER 4 WITHOUT A DOUBT!!!
If this is true.... way to drop the ball Magenta.... again.
EPIC FAIL
Sprint has 500 minutes + unlimited txt & data + AnyMobile AnyTime + GPS Nav + TV, etc for $60/month on their EPRP plan (or $70 - corp disc. on regular retail plan). $80 for the same minutes/txt/data and fewer features on a shoddier network? No thanks.
@BRAIN Epic fail doesnt begin to describe this.
I have the customer loyalty plan.... Im paying $40 per line unlimited talk + messages + $35 for unlimited text + 3G data.
If whats above is true, then the even more plan for family comes out cheaper than a "loyal customer" with 5 lines?
Something doesn't make sense.
Also, I don't know how many of you are aware of this, but do you all realize we pay a luxury tax on cell phones?
I'm in So. FL. and we pay 20% luxury tax on cell phones.
Ive recently sent a letter to our governor regarding this issue and I think everyone should make a concerted effort to do the same.
I cant see how in today's world a cell phone is a luxury. Send a letter to your governor & state reps .... $20 tax on a $70 bill is highway robbery.
The loyal customer plan that I am on as well is not $40 but $49 for unlimited voice. Your statement: "Im paying $40 per line unlimited talk + messages + $35 for unlimited text + 3G data" doesn't make sense; not only do you have the price wrong, you say it includes messages (it really doesn't) and if it does, then why do you pay an additional $35 for unlimited text along with web? just get the $29.99 unlimited web...unless, you have too much money on your hands (considering $35- $29.99 =$5/mo on 5 lines that you claim to have over 2 years makes it $600 + tax)
EPIC FAIL @ you sir, for:
1. Not knowing how much you pay for each of your 5 lines
2. Not knowing what your plan includes
and
3. Not knowing 20% of $70 is not $20
My problem with this is, due to older plans, i have 300 minute my faves for $39.99(i never com close to using it all) $10 and G1 data for $25 and thats about $88 a month for me on contract. There is no incentive for me to change.
@Mantikos
Youre an idiot..... EPIC FAIL = your parents for breeding you.
So for those that insist on following the ways of ignorance.....
$49 for the loyalty plan is for one line. Add a second line and it goes down to $45 a month.. ad a 3rd or more lines and each line thereafter goes down to $40 a month. Call TMobile before you talk shmuck.
So... to reiterate.... Im paying $40 for the line which includes unlimited voice + unlimited messages (not text... voice tard).... on top of that I pay $35 for unlimited data + unlimited text (or $25 for unlimited data + only 400 messages).
3. when I said $20 is 20% I was being facetious.... exaggerating if you will..... dont be retarded, any a hold cant multiply .20 * 7 to get $14.
Do you really need that much help?
And 3... I dont have too much money on my hands... I have just the right amount.
I appologize Mr. Immigrant, it's hard to understand you
example: "ad a 3rd or more lines", "any a hold "
"unlimited voice + unlimited messages (not text... voice tard).... "
I haven't even heard of limited VM...let alone limited 'voice tards'...whatever that means you turd burglar
"Do you really need that much help?"
Actually, looks like you do...with your language skills
"I dont have too much money on my hands"
Don't doubt it, with those language skills and that immigrant accent of yours you are probably flipping burgers @ BK or some crap
@ yaniv
Sorry buddy - you are the, how did you phrase it, tard. You can't put together a sentence and your description of your services doesn't make any sense.
This is supposed to be a game changer, and they can't even match the grandfathered plan that I have. 2 lines, 1000 minutes, 400 texts each, $60. I'd have to lose my phone subsidies, drop 250 minutes AND pay an extra $10 and the only benefit would be unlimited texts, which I don't need.
THIS IS AMAZING!!
THIS WILL DEFINITELY CATAPULT T-MOBILE TO NUMBER 4 WITHOUT A DOUBT!!!
Nice to see the trolls come out to play.
The new plans look pretty good for my needs!
FAIL! I can get unlimited everything from Sprint for $69 bucks. Granted, voice is unlimited only for mobile, but I don't think that's a real setback for non-business users anyway.
I was really excited for this, T-Mo.. way to let me down.
TmoNews website has crashed!!
@dave
I noticed that too lol
I think this massive failure as wreaked havoc on anything associated with Magenta whether official or not :)
my current contract is expiring. I seriously considered Tmobile and found an android phone with a plan of $55 (300 mins talk and data, I don't talk that much) with a subsidized phone ($200 or so)is good for me. However, with this project dark, I would have to pay full price for the phone (at least $400) to get the comparable $55 plan, or to pay $70 to get a subsidized phone.....
This "game changer" turned me off at least.
Let's do some math on this...
Contract: $179.99 * 24 = 4319.76 over 2 years
No Contract: 139.99 * 24 = 3359.76 over 2 years
This means that if you think you're going to have your phone for 2 years, then going with a contract is the equivalent of buying a $960 phone. Therefore, if you're looking to buy a phone that costs $960 or less un-subsidized, then going with the no-contract plan is the better value. This gap gets even bigger if for each year you keep your phone, past 2 years. On the other hand, if you don't think you can go 2 years without replacing your phone, you need the following equation to figure out how much you can spend without going over the contract price.
Equivalent phone cost when compared to contract = (contract plan cost - non-contract plan cost) * number of months you expect to have the phone.
AKA
Individual plans: phone = $20 * months
Family 750: phone = $30 * months
Family 1500 and Unlimited: phone = $40 * months
Using two years (the contract length), the plans become equivalent in price if the phone costs (off-contract):
Individual plans: $480
Family 750: $720
Family 1500/Unlimited: $960
This also doesn't include the cost of the phone subsidized. To get that value, just add the subsidized phone price to the numbers generated above. Once again, these numbers are how much you can pay for a phone off-contract and pay the same amount as you would have on-contract over 2 years.
Jim
I think the whole point is T-Mobile WANTS people to but the cheaper plan but get the unsubsidized phone.
Remember.... it takes them almost a year to break even on clients that subsidized a phone.
At that point... they are making a killing in profit on hardware which is something they're never had before.
Look at the Metro PCS model. There selling the product and a ridiculously low price but make a killing on the hardware; $550 for a RIM Curve?? Wow.
@yaniv.chrokron
Yep, my point was just to illustrate that you cna balance how much you pay for your phone with which plan you get relatively easily. Personally, I think it's a win-win situation. TMO is giving people the ability to go off-contract and pay less (if they're smart about it) and they're also getting a larger profit off the hardware sale. Especially for people who don't do this kind of math and blindly think the lower price on the plan is always going to outweigh the up-front cost...you'd be surprised how many people fall for that.
Those prior rumors had me thinking I was going to get away with a $50 - $60 plan including unlimted data.
I was ready to make the jump.
I even spent the last few nights contemplating which Android phone from T-Mobiles I was going to compromise with.
Looks like the contendors will be Verizon's Droid @ $70 monthly or Sprint's Moment @ $70 monthly.
Any opinions on this?
Do I go with the top of line Droid on Verizon? Or jump on Sprint and get a great phone plus navigation included?
@miniboss....
what Verizon plan do you see for $70 that includes unlimited data?
I would jump ship for that if it had a decent amount of minutes.
This just proves that T-Mobile is not ready to be a contender.... they lack the capacity to understand that the phone is almost as import as the plan. They need to be able to grab their cojones and get in bed with the devil.
@yaniv.chokron
If you go to the Verizon wireless website you can look under 'Plans'. Choose the tab titled 'Connect'. You will see the first plan for 450 minutes of voice with unlimted text and data starts at $69.99.
My concern with Verizon and specifically the Droid is if it can operate outside the U.S.
Also in concern to Sprint as well as Verizon is the ability to voice and data at the same time.
Apparently its only AT&T and T-Mobile that have network that can do that - but we already know what their problems are!
I truly believe there is no perfect package for any phone or carrier.
The smartphone data add-on: is that required even if you get the talk + text + web option? If so, this plan blows for smartphone users.
Sprint still has the best plan with the unlimited cell to cell plus data,text,web etc for 70 bucks....
IDK how T-Mobile plans work so correct me if I'm wrong on this, but their plan would barely even be cheaper for me than AT&T assuming the best possible case, or T-Mobile could actually end up being more expensive! I was going to switch to TMobile so I can get a N900 but now I've changed my mind.
With AT&T I pay $30 for unlimited text for the family, and $10 for unlimited web per line. I have five phone lines. Assuming I had text & data on every line with AT&T, my total would be: $84.99 (1500 mins) + $29.97 (3 addtl lines) + $50 (web) + $30 (text) = $194.96
It doesn't say how much additional lines would cost on the T-Mobile plans (Or at least my blind eyes don't see it), so I'm assuming based on current pricing that it would be $19.99 for each additional line. $9.99 for the line itself and $10 more to be part of the text + web plan. So $159.99 (1500 mins) + $59.97 (3 addlt lines) = $219.96!!! More money than AT&T!
Now let's assume they don't charge $19.99 for each additional line but actually throw in the text + web at no extra cost and only charge $9.99 for each additional line. $159.99 (1500 mins) + $29.97 (3 addlt lines) = $189.96.
T-Mobile would be only $5 cheaper ...but not really. Take into account that AT&T has rollover minutes and a larger mobile to mobile calling population, and that easily makes up for the lousy $5. Argue all you want about if it's a "perceived" savings but I can tell you that the couple of times throughout a contract that I have gone over, the rollover minutes definitely saved my ass and was cheaper than the extra $5 per month. ($5 x 24months = $120 throughout a contract. 200 overage minutes x $0.35/min x 2times per 24 months = $140. I saved $20. And it's easy to have it happen more than 2 times in a 24 month period).
As crappy as AT&T's 3G is, it is still currently better than T-Mobile's. I think that will change, but for now that's just how it is. AT&T's Nationwide footprint is also better, AT&T possibly has more roaming agreements, and in my case I have free detailed billing ($1.99/month savings), free enhanced voicemail ($1.99/line x 5 = $9.95/month savings), 6 way calling instead of 3 way, and free fax service on my line.
Now I realize that most people don't get the free detailed billing, enhanced voicemail, 6way calling, and fax service. I also realize that the 1500 minute plan with AT&T is no longer available. Instead, they now offer 1400 minutes and it's $5 more ($89.99/month). So it would be $199.96 for 1400 minutes for most people. $10 more and 100 fewer minutes than T-Mobile. For some people that extra savings may be worth the switch.
Another thing I had to consider was that AT&T gives A-List for free on family plans of $89.99 and higher. You can call 10 people on any network at any time without using any minutes. It does not seem that T-Mobile's Project Dark plans include myFaves. Even if they did, myFaves only includes 5 people. Or if it was available as an add-on, then the price plan would be back at being the same price or even more money than AT&T. (Considering that with current plans: 700 mins with myFaves is $20 more than without, and 2500/3500 are $10 more with myFaves). So for the same price or possibly $10 more, T-Mobile would provide 100 more minutes but half the calling circle.
The bottom line is that the plans in my example are so close in price that it is far from "[turning] the entire industry upside down" as T-Mobile intended. Sure, other plans might be better values. I'm not sure and I don't care as these are the plans that are relevant to my situation and my bill. Considering I have 1500 minutes and 5 lines, the T-Mobile plan comes very very far from making me want to switch carriers. I can't stand AT&T and was really hoping to switch to T-Mobile. But with these plans, it sure as hell ain't gonna happen. (And I didn't even get into the whole "needing a smartphone data plan" issue considering I wanted a N900). With T-Mobile's current situation and the hype around Project Dark, the savings should be so big that they don't come close to comparing. Just the fact alone that I had to take so many things into consideration because there was no big price gap (at least for me) makes Project Dark a big FAIL. AT&T's plans shouldn't even come close!
It is pretty much the same. I will be sticking with my current (grandfathered) plan. I am excited to see what hardware is soon to be available! BB 9700 is my choice as of now.
After reading through all your posts, it seems like many of you feel like the project dark plans didn't live up to its "game changing" hype. There were high hopes that T-mobile would offer an unlimited voice/txt/data plan for 50 bucks and they didn't deliver. In fact, their annual rate plans are anything but "game changing." But, really take look at what T-Mobile has done with the Even More Plus monthly access plans. This may really shake things up and can potentially change the entire industry. Let me explain.
Equivalent rate plans are $10 cheaper under Even More Plus and $20 cheaper if you get data + txt bundled in. Lets imagine you're a new customer and want to get a myTouch. You have two options:
1. Pay $500 bucks for your phone over 4 months, and save $20/month over the annual contract plans or
2. Pay $150 and sign up for a two year contract and cough up an extra $20/month.
Do the math, over the course of two years you save $480 going with the monthly contract and they'll only subsidize your phone by $350 if you sign up annually. They are also offering $5 add a line for all 750/1500 minute family plans. Thats half the price from the traditional $9.99 add-a-line. Not only are you saving money by going month-to-month, you're NOT stuck in a 2 yr contract. You get full flexability and the benifits of not being locked into what seems like an endless 2 YR commitment.
Going out of country for a month? no hassles, no problem
Short on cash? Use your old phone and drop to a minimum plan for however long you want until you get that raise im sure you deserve. no hassles, no problem
If this catches on, get ready to see an entirely new market. As people start shifting over to the cheaper and more flexible monthly contracts, competing providers are gonna have to offer similar lower than annual contract rates for monthly customers. And thats when us, the consumer, can reap the benifits of a no-commitment type market. Imagine having the ability to switch to different providers on a monthly basis. You're no longer married to your phone provider. How great is that?
In my opinion, this is a brilliant move by T-Mobile. They've been stuck with the stigma that there a sub-par network with terrible data coverage. In the past couple years, they've really begun to push to make there network better and they have but that stigmas not going away. People are sceptical about signing a 2 year agreement even if they do happen to live in a good-coverage area. Now they have the ability to test the network and if they dont like, switch over to a different provider. If T-Mobile markets this correctly and offer killer promos, expect to see a major leap for t-mobile in the wireless industry.
Obviously, current T-mobile customers with great grandfathered rates like the loyalty plans won't see any benefits but project dark wasn't for you guys. They already stuck you with your loyalty rates so they know you aren't going anywhere anytime soon. They're trying to steal away customer from there competiters without drastically effecting their revenue stream.
Unfortunately, if you're with t-mobile already all these new rate plans are pretty 'ho-hum' and not very "game-changing." But if everything works out according to plan, the entire game will be changed and we'll all be saying good bye to our 2 yr commitments
1. With even more plus (no contract), the customer has the option to pay off the entire retail value of the handset within a time span of 20 months. With Even more (contracted), the customer has the option of paying off there discounted handset in four installments. This will really helps out our customers because those customers who did not qualify for a post paid account and had to deal with paying the entire price of the phone + the first month's bill really felt the impact in their pockets.