Verizon responds to AT&T's Map For That lawsuit: 'the truth hurts'
By Nilay Patel 
posted Nov 16th 2009 9:28PM
posted Nov 16th 2009 9:28PM
Yeah. It's gonna be like that. Verizon goes on to argue that even AT&T concedes the maps are accurate, and that pulling any of the ads off the air without proof that they're misleading consumers would be unfair, and that at the very least both parties need time to investigate further. Honestly? We've read it over a couple times now and while the legal arguments are certainly interesting, it's hard not to get the impression that Verizon drafted this response with publication in mind -- check out this quote:AT&T did not file this lawsuit because Verizon's "There's A Map For That" advertisements are untrue; AT&T sued because Verizon's ads are true and the truth hurts.
See what we mean? Now, we still think there's some merit to the idea that Verizon's ads improperly conflate 3G coverage area with 3G service quality, but that's really not what AT&T's arguing -- hell, it's busy pimping EDGE. We'll see if these two can solve their differences and get back to work, but we've got the feeling this thing ain't over yet.In the final analysis, AT&T seeks emergency relief because Verizon's side-by-side, apples-to-apples comparison of its own 3G coverage with AT&T's confirms what the marketplace has been saying for months: AT&T failed to invest adequately in the necessary infrastructure to expand its 3G coverage to support its growth in smartphone business, and the usefulness of its service to smartphone users has suffered accordingly.
Update: Here's the PDF, in case you're interested.
"AT&T did not file this lawsuit because Verizon's "There's A Map For That" advertisements are untrue; AT&T sued because Verizon's ads are true and the truth hurts."
LOL
GO Verizon!!
Nuked...
Verizon is crazy expensive.. But if they release a Android 2.0 HTC w/ Sense Device (HTC Passion) they will lock me down for 2 years... Can't wait... By the way.. I am a ATT cust. and their service is getting worst and worst where I reside...
lol when you say crazy expensive you mean $5 or $10 more. Lol to me crazy expensive is att for the quality of service they offer specially 3g
Verizon's least expensive everything plan is $90. (and possibly more with their $3 add-ons).
Sprint's least expensive everything plan is $60.
BIG difference in price (= $720 on a 2-year contract), but I have to admit that I too, would pay the extra if they got an android phone similar to the HTC HD (Passion).
why doesnt AT&T post an ad showing their 2G coverage vs Verizon's 2G Coverage :)
Because at 2G smartphones are gimped laptops. 3G is what made the smartphone market really explode.
Do you really want to see ATT show off the latest iPhone on 2G?
Why doesn't Verizon admit to the fact that they hose customers and they are losing more and more customers to ATT's "awful" service. Maybe ATT should produce an ad saying that Verizon is admitting that their CDMA technology will no longer be a valid technology because they are switching to LTE for 4g which is a GSM technology and not WIMAX, a CDMA 4g progression.
Actually, UMB was the natural CDMA 4G progression. What does deploying LTE in the future have anything to do with supposedly invalidating EVDO? Even though LTE is a GSM approved 4G progression, the current 3G deployment that is GSM approved is known as WCDMA. It has to do with how the data is divided in getting to the handset. Try stating something factual before smashing a company because you're most likely an apple fanboy.
not to pile on, but WiMAX and LTE are both OFDM, so neither could be considered a progression for GSM or CDMA. jfyi
Not to pile even more and reiterate forth-worthy.. but OMG and WTF is a progression of GTFO and BBQ therefore, OMGWTFBBQ is the obvious progression for everyone going forward.
"Now, we still think there's some merit to the idea that Verizon's ads improperly conflate 3G coverage area with 3G service quality"
That's very true... they don't point out that even in supposed solid blue 3G areas (NY, SF), that service is still subpar.
ATT just needs to go back to the commercials in which they state the fact that they have the most coverage in the most cities by xxx% by simply thinking globally because that is a true ad as well. no need to discuss the coverage available only in states.
Yeah, this is a classic case of AT&T shooting themselves in the foot. The lawsuit just draws more attention to the ads and has caused Verizon to run them more. And it confirms for Verizon that they've really hit upon something. It's amazing that a huge company like AT&T can make such a basic PR mistake. Then should be trying to figure out a way to get the attention on something else, not doing Verizon's job for them.
To the people who say the VZW is crazy expensive (dakdjadkfjk and Y314K) I was under the impression that AT&T's plans were the same pretty much all the way down the line as VZW? Oh and dak this past quarter I believe was the 1st in a long long time AT&T had a better rate than VZW.
I read all forty something pages, and in my opinion, Verizon decimated AT&T. AT&T freaked because they were caught with their pants down, and were scrambling for any available remedy. lol
I love how Engadget picked up on the quotes Verizon wanted them to. Just like you said, their there for PR, not legal reasons. So why not publish quotes that Verizon did put in for legal reasons? I'm not saying don't publish the PR quotes, I'm just saying I'd like to see legal arguments without having to read all 30 pages myself. That's why I read Engadget.
If Verizon is SO "crazy expensive," then why am I paying the exact same amount for the exact some features. All that on a better network? Please, hook me up with some knowledge.
Too bad VZ doesn't yet offer any decent smarthphones for their superior 3G network. It's a wash as far as I'm concerned. ATT with little 3G coverage with great smart phones and VZ with great 3G coverage and antequated smartphones.
You think the Droid, Touch Pro2 and the Storm 2 are antiquated? While it may take VZ longer to release stuff, I would say all that VZ is missing, competitively speaking is the iphone. Can you imagine with all the service problems and dominate edge service ATT has now, the pickle that ATT would be in now if they both had the iphone?
Bottom line fierce competition drives better tech and lower prices, therefore the consumer wins-wins. Imagine what would happen if there was competition in health care?
Touch Pro 2, Droid, Tour, HTC Imagio, Storm 2, Curve 2, Omnia II.
Yeah, you are right. No good 3G phones.
Tool.
if ATT is so bad why do so many people use them? i mean, is it THAT bad? I'm almost tempted to go buy a phone and check it out for a couple days just to see! I live in MA...
I live in MA too and can tell you for sure that AT&T's service here is appalling. The only reason i have an iPhone is because AT&T is the only company offered through the company that i work for. I still have a Verizon phone left over from an old plan that i carry with me too. On my train to work everyday there are two massive areas that i get absolutely no coverage on my iPhone and almost full coverage on my Verizon phone. I wish cell companies would stop competing with phone exclusivity and start competing with network capability/availability.
Reasons:
1. The Devil you know. Yes, some people move from carrier to carrier, but unless there is real reason (which varies, whether billing problems, desired phone, etc), most people tend to learn to accept the flaws that their provider has, and just sticks with them because there is no perfect provider. Many will even rush to the defense of their providers (it is amusing how loyal some subscribers are), so perception plays a large role.
2. Acquisitions. Not everybody that is an at&t subscriber signed up with them. There are those that came from the old AT&T (before they were acquired by cingular), Bell South, SNET, Pacific Bell Wireless, Southwestern Bell, etc. and as stated previously, people are typically hesitant to change unless they feel something has gone badly wrong (goofed up bill, bad customer service or...)
3. The iPhone. Like it or not, people stick around for the iPhone. It will be interesting to see what happens when at&t no longer has this exclusive arrangement.
It really is simple as 1-2-3
Lets be fair & honest... Verizon's 3G was activated nation wide in 2007. They needed to roll out with EV-DO Rev A. so that they could fulfill there roaming agreements with Sprint who were looking at pushing out Q-Chat as a replacement to the iDEN phones that poor ol legacy network. Same with Altel there EV-DO Rev A. was the first company to fully comply to the Rev A. infrastructure, for the same reason at the time.
However true AT&T's 3G network is Faster although they were not looking that hard into 3G until the iPhone pushed out the 3G series. Yes its true you can with AT&T while on a voice call look up something on the web or still receive a email & with Verizon / CDMA you can not. The digital footprint I wonder if it was influenced by sales of the iPhone device.
A lack of a pure 3G network AT&T and T-mobile started to include WiFi as alternate hot spot networks. AT&T has announced that they plan on developing a 4G wireless network but no release on when that will go live.
Verizon has all ready stated that by Q2 2010 that there LTE network will be rolled out in 30 markets directly competing now with Clearwire / WiMAX. Mean while both Sprint & Verizon have started selling Blackberry's & other devices with WiFi chips. This both helps with current customer's but if the customer all ready must pay $30.00 data plan why not allow them to use there own home networks and reduce there dependency on Verizon's 3G network.
Soon Verizon will be comparing AT&T's 4G wireless Map with Clearwire 4G wireless map. So I would not think that this type of ad campaign will go away.
Remember when Cingular stated the fewest dropped called and more bar's in more places ad and Verizon didn't appreciate those ad's either. So bucklet up cause its only going to keep getting better.
The facts portrayed in the ads are as true as AT&T's facts in their "more bars in more places" ads.
Verizon has hit on a perfect marketing strategy at the perfect time, with the launch of some seriously HOT devices and the timing of the Christmas buying season.
Verizon more expensive than AT&T? What? Have you actually LOOKED at prices yourself or at any of the cell phone plan comparison sites? Pricing between AT&T and Verizon are within
ATT has milked the Iphone for all its worth, good for them. Now that Verizon has itself a very impressive stable of smart phones they can really give it to ATT, which of course is exactly what they are doing. ATT has had three years to beef up thier network and the results are sub par at best. I used the Iphone 3GS for a week and, here in NY, I can attest that their service is pathetic. As it goes with competition, one can only hope that these ad's prompt ATT to get going and really put some muscle into improving thier service. The end customer will be the winner, eventually.
I agree with 66% of your statement. It is not as much of the smartness of the phone, it is the attention of content providers (TV, game, books, etc) and 10,000 apps found on itunes that makes the iphone great. I have the MLB to listen to every game in season, gaming, movies, music on my i touch. This is what is driving VZ to go batty beacuse users are churning out. That's why in an earlier post I recommended that VZ partner or buy REal.com for its relationship with publishers and then build a open developement portal of great content.
This is the android market site, yes I know they just started, but this is no itunes... http://www.android.com/market/
I read through the entire complaint. Its really well written and paints a layman's (like a non tech judge) understandable rendition of the competitive situation and the fairness of the 3g within ATT and VZ. I have two comments, the fact that AT&T states that 3g is the cornerstone of smartphone use, ATT already agreed that 3g vs 2g is substainially important to a smartphones use, therefore its reasonable that a comparison in competition is not misleading. Secondly as found on page 18, the fact that ATT makes it virtually impossible without photoshopping their available maps can a user find an exclusive 3g ATT map. A reasonable conclusion is that someone in the marketing department thought their coverage was not something to show to prospective consumers and "promote". The deeper truth hurts even more.
So, let me get this straight AT&T.. It's OK to make quajillions of dollars on advertising the upgraded iPhone 3G, which has a way faster network speed than the standard EDGE iPhone. But it's NOT OK to say Verizon's 3G network is faster than EDGE? Mmmhmm, that's what I thought.