forgot to mention, do you think there will be a price drop? Im in the UK and think that:

Core Package @ £199.99 will reduce to £149.99
(to compete with Wii)
Premium Package @299.99 will either reduce to £249.99 or stay at a similar price and come bundled with games and the HD-DVD drive etc

'Zephyr' will become know as 'Platinum Package' and come with everything: in-built wireless, 120gb hard-drive, HD-DVD built in (but i think it will be bundled), 1 wireless controller (hopefully 2) and either the vision cam and/or the wireless headset for £400!

I would love to see Sony's reaction. If microsoft link the above with an advertising onslaught theres no-way anyone would buy the PS3 because what would be the point? Come on Microsoft, MAKE MY DAY!!!! (You will def get all my £££ if u make some kind of Platinum Package like I mention above! PLEAAAAAAAAAAAAAASE!!!!)

All I can say is thank god i ALWAYS wait 1+ years until i buy any new-gen hardware. Stuff like this always happen (here's looking at you APPLE!) It might be out in time for my birthday in March- Woooooooooooooooo!

As for a class action law suit from the early adopters, is there going to be one for nintendo with the DS - DS Lite? not a chance! how about we throw in one there for apple everytime it revises it's hardware? What, no?! didnt think so!

Well MS have just lost my £££ until this baby comes out and by the time this happens even more titles will have gone "platinum/ classic" i.e. GoW, Lost Planet etc! Wooooooo even better deals ahead! This will go nicely with my new Samsung HD-LCD.

@GadgetGav

Calm down! I was broadening the discussion as the 6G ipod had already been touched on by other commentators mentioning "the widescreen ipod" which we believe is going to be touchscreen!

@Spoonie

I think many people already know how to rip the DRM from Play for Sure and iTUNE purchases to enable these purchased songs to play on any music player as long as that file type is supported. If it isnt supported, rip the DRM off the file then recode it to something that will play on your targeted music player!

TOUCHSCRREN IPOD! (Sorry for the shouting)

It aint gunna happen how you think it will! The problem with either a touchscrren or that touch sensative casing (patent info seen on here a few weeks ago) is that they would interfere with the one thing Apple relies on to 'up the benefits' of owning an iPOD- 3rd Party accessory makers!

Think about it- how would all those fancy leather/ silicoln cases (with screen protectors built in) work with either a touch screen or a touch sensative casing? Even if they made the back of the case leather and the whole front of it (from the back corners and wrapped around the sides and front) silicon it would seriously damage the asthetics (an area which many people consider when buying the ipod and one which is being discussed in this 'thread' so dont flame me saying that this isn't an area of contention!)

2nd: due to the shape of the ipod (lovely rounded corners) for an 'all in one case' with a screen protector built into it to work with a touchscreen/ touch casing, it would literally have to be 'shrink wrapped' around the ipod for it to stay in place! even then the material will have to be so thin that it doesn't interfere with the touch operations/ add bulk but then you have to consider the effects of using 'thin' materials i.e. wear and tear, lifespan of said accessory etc! again this would diminish the asthetics of the player.

For those who are about to say they would not cover it with a case etc... RUBBISH! your brand new elite �250+ widescreen iPOD (the thing apple fanboys have been craving for years) and your not going to protect that easily scratchable metal casing, or that lovely 'come scratch me with your dirty fingers with grit all over them' screen? OK so they could use one of those crystal type screen/ scratch resistant screen but that only solves the problem of the screen.

They could use thoses 'skins' you stick over electronics but they dont cover corners!!! and mixing that with a screen protector would look fugly as fugly can be!

I know this 'rant' is revolving around a case but you can imagine the effects on other accessories:

car dock- gently clamp the sides and base of the ipod. this would ruin touch casing operation

home doc- would cover the lover part of the touch casing rendering it useless.

etc etc..im sure you can think of others which would be affected! which ever system apple has already agreed on, either will have its drawbacks for accessory makers due to customers preference for asthetic design! I personally think they will choose that click design which we saw the patent for a few months ago i.e. each edge of the screen can be pressed downwards to move the menu in different directions etc and then you press the whole screen down to 'select.' BUT then you have the problem of heavy handed people literally crushing the ipod/ wear and tear on the screen!!

Im sure apple found it hard when deciding which to use (god knows they've had there problems recently with quality) and with this being the 'showcase' product of 2007, if they seriously mess this one up, the competitors will be all over them. And now the fan boys are saying 'not a chance' but recommendation from friends/ peers etc can have lasting effects. I and 10 of my friends are yet to upgrade to the new macbook because of all these problems. imagine if they also tell people to hold back on a new purchase because off all these problems etc etc!!! all the R&D apple have spent will keep them 'in the red' for a while in regards to recouping costs for the new ipod!

Another problem is people might just start thinking "hey, whats this zune? I need an ugrade from my iPOD, the new widescreen has quality problems*, but this zune has many of the features/ accessories I only really need as I dont really want to watch movies on such small screens etc."

* theoretical based on apples recently well publicised quality issues!

So ill await all the flames from apple fanboys. BTW im not an apple, M$ or fanboy of any other company.

@dave95: I like how you say apple is borrowing (WMP Huge UI scrolling letter)ideas ! But when microsoft 'borrows' ideas from other companies (apple inparticular) all the apple fan boys shout 'copycat' and even apple puts up banners in exhibition halls with the wording 'redmond get your copiers ready!' It's pathetic. everyone needs to grow up and realise that if something is working, others will follow! grow up everyone just grow up its like your in a school yard "copycat copycat blah blah blah". GROW UP!

i hope it kick's the ipods A**E!

I'm more than happy to donate my old xbox. Anyone else with me on this?

All interesting stuff and im saving judgement until i've actually played with one. But I have a few queries:

1) 'Zune'- is that the name of the player or the brand like 'Apple' and there 'iPOD' 'Nano'? Think about it: everyone seems to think that Zune is the name of the player, the way MS seems to be lining products up (this is the first Zune 'player' and a Nano competitor is coming so what will that be called: Zune [insert a word for small here that hasnt been used by other mp3 player companies]). The Nano is the 'Apple(=brand name)' 'iPOD(=Product line)' 'Nano(= Model).' Why wouldn't M$ take the same approach? Zune [insert Product line] [insert model]. This leads onto number 2...

2) Then we have the possibility for M$ to expand into other hardware! MacBook=ZunePad / MacBook Pro=ZunePad Elite / Mac Pro = Zune Elite. If Vista (when it arrives) is as good (stop laughing) as M$ says its going to be, fully integrated into 'live' and Zune's 'music store' and everything MSN then u have a direct competitor to apples business model a-la xbox where one company controls everything (software and hardware). I think we'd be stupid to think this wont happen in the next 3 - 5 years. This leads onto number 3...

3) Yes this would make MS a direct competitor to its vendors but would lead to more innovation and price reductions through improved manufacturing efficiency to literally price Apple out of the market! Think I read M$ has bank reserves of $50 billion... who's betting they dont follow the same approach as with the xbox brand and take a huge hit in the short term (1 - 3 years) to make a killing in the long term? At the end of the original xbox's life it started to work but then they went next gen to start it all over again. The name of the game is market share and public perception! If they keep the M$ branding away from everything Zune, target it at the youth audience which they seem to be doing, build brand recognition/ affection/ and desire (viral marketing seems to have done the trick to raise its profile), undercut apple consistantly by £100 - £150 for the next 1 - 5 years (year 3 introducing hardware i.e. ZunePad) in all possible products while offering improved more advanced hardware with the asthetics of Apple products then Apple is going to take a serious kicking! I don't think any 'fanboy' can read this and deny M$ doesn't have a long term plan for the Zune brand and I say good luck (and I'm an Apple fanboy).

4)I think M$ trying to distance themselves from the brand 'Zune' (in the eyes of the general public like xbox, even though we techies all know its M$) to make its products more unique/ youth focused??? This will work M$ if you don't put your branding everywhere!! Keep it simple and keep it Zune focused (hmmm.. could that be a future zune tag line "keep it simple. Keep it Zune"??). This leads on to the more detailed number 5...

5) 'M$ branding' - I think this Zune Product will fall on its arse if the word 'Microsoft' appears on the player (front or back) or is significantly placed on the packaging/ manual etc. If they use 'zune' as the brand name (look at the logo = seriously cool! ok the apple is timeless but when have you seen a logo like Zune's for a while? It makes me want to look at it for longer and look at the patterns/ shapes i.e. Z's and X'x etc - sad i know but its another way of focusing interest on the brand/ product!) then they will have a chance! Leading onto number 6....

6) The overall packaging will make or break this thing on the shop shelf! If M$ is really 'on the ball' they will make it simple and elegant a-la Apple packaging! The iPOD packaging looks so classy and 'expensive' that it makes you want to pick it up even though nothing about the product is really detailed on the external packaging! M$ pleeaassse dont make the mistake of putting logos all over the place! Just have a nice 'crystal white' sleeve to slip over the main contents box (a-la ipod) with the Zune logo (just the Z thing, not the word) in the middle on the front and back with maybe a small tag line down the other 2 slim sides of the box in the same grey colour used for the word zune i.e. "zune. entertainment re-defined". Then make the contents box the same colour as the grey lettering (again a-la ipod) with no wording or branding on!! keep it simple and clean!

Anyway thats it from me. I'll see you in three years time when we are discussing the ZunePad which will be more advanced, more asthetically pleasing, and £150 cheaper than the same spec'd MacBook!

hmmm so the 360s camera can work like the wee remote? and setting up two cameras i read can imitate body movement in the game? you see where im going with this.....?

USE YOU HAND AS A PADDLE!!!